What will Wrestling look like with 4 classes?

[3PTNF]

Good point Tony. I've been out of school for a long time and when I get to talking with people about wrestling nobody ever ask how I did at the Ron Thon or the Pepsi ( or whetever for sure it was called then), they ask how I did at State.

[#1bearfan]

I am not sure Gillette can fill two campus's with wrestlers at this point i know they did not field a JV full squad all year, it was as THIN as I have seen in many years for number of wrestlers on the mat, i know i heard numbers of 90 at the start of season, I dont think we had 28 at the end? I could be wrong but i know of 2 weights we had NO second wrestlers. It will be interesting to see how things go after this year, I hope Coach Semans continues to be a part of the program! I do not know if the large numbers caused the smaller amount of Camels wrestling or what the cause was, but I assure you Gillette is NOT as deep as some 3A schools when it comes to number of HS wrestlers, I hear they have good 8th grade group coming in but that is all rumors. I know at Regionals I was turning around a LOT and asking who is this kid, the ones who stepped up to wrestle were names I had not heard much if anything of all year, look at the Thon JV results tells the story well!
Good luck to all at State for the Seniors who I have enjoyed watching for 4 years I am trying to get out of a work related comittment so I can at least make Semi's and wrestle backs and championships! It was an honor to assist in giving a Gold donation to all the deserving young men who will be rewarded this Saturday night!

[Big T]

We need to as Joe stated, talk to our AD's and get involved.Personally, As I and others have mentioned a 2 class system with placing thru 8th is an acceptable format.Plus get our 7th and 8th grade young "men" added, if this worries you go watch some of them wrestle. Your concerns will be taken care of. I'm relatively sure our 7th and 8th grade guy's can take a beating as well as the ND and SD guys not to mention MN also. The thought of 3 classification tourneys has me thinking of a really fouled up bracket with the finals happening in semi's. This happens in MT sometimes with a 4 division system, which is ok. But if we can avoid this it would be better. 2 regionals, 16 man brackets wrestle to 8th not computer placed .State brackets preset per place. If you want to wrestle at State then out work your opponent. Wrestling has grown so a 8 man bracket really isn't a healthy choice for the sport.

[eclark]

I am not sure what proposals I like best. I just know that 4 classes is toooooooo many. We need to look at the numbers make rational decisions and keep the ideas of who wins state out of it. We need to do what is best for wrestling.
Add 7th & 8th Graders in Wyoming? I wrestled on the HS team while in middle school in SD. It didn't kill me but, I don't think that is the answer.

2 classes Maybe, Leave it as it is Maybe, but 4 classes will destroy us.

Do I think we will get more kids recruited with 2 classes or 1? No, the good kids get recruited from the Jrs. and the Ron Thon,and huge tourneys, academics count as well as character. I don't agree with Joe on that idea. The coaches WILL find the good ones.

But, don't sit around. GET involved at a local level.

[JoeHatley]

Keeping it simple I see several reasons why we don't go to 2 classes.

1. 4A schools like having 12 teams. It seems almost elitest and snobbish to me. Maybe I am wrong, but I get the impression that WHSAA and some of the larger school AD's relish the fact that there are only 12 teams and they don't think anyone is worthy of coming up. Almost as if no 3A team could really compete in 4A. When that has been disproven by Star Valley alone. They competed quite well the 4 yrs they were there. Douglas and Powell would seriously disrupt the 4A state tourney THIS YEAR if they could compete in 4A.

2. 2A schools are afraid of getting bowled over and they won't be able to compete with larger schools OR that their wrestlers aren't able to earn many medals with the addition of some larger schools. Not true, check Ron Thon results for the past 5 years there have been plenty of 2A wrestlers WINNING titles and many more placing. So that doesn't wash.

3. Too much emphasis on participation. Yes, I want more wrestlers in our state. I don't want just more bodies, I want wrestlers that want to compete at a high level. I understand that not every young wrestler is college caliber or will be an Olympic champion. However, do we diminish our competitive field by going to 4+ classes just so we have a higher percentage of wrestlers get on the podium? It is very important that our educators and coaches encourage competition in the classroom and in extracurricular activities. Not reduce the field just to let someone feel good...

4. Not enough of the public voicing their opinions about what 3-4 classes will do to our sport.


Lastly, Eddie, college coaches may keep an eye on the Ron Thon results and results from other big tourneys, but they like to see state champions who waded through a strong field of competitors. A state champ from the least populated state with 4 classes doesn't fit the bill. I am very proud of our 2A boys that are getting time in D1 and D2, (Kasey Garnhart, Leland Pfeiffer, Kaleb Hoyt and others). We would make their recruiting jobs easier if we go to 2 classes so they can see just how good their potential recuit is.


More to follow....


JOe

[Team B&D]

Keeping it simple I see several reasons why we don't go to 2 classes.

1. 4A schools like having 12 teams. It seems almost elitest and snobbish to me. Maybe I am wrong, but I get the impression that WHSAA and some of the larger school AD's relish the fact that there are only 12 teams and they don't think anyone is worthy of coming up. Almost as if no 3A team could really compete in 4A. When that has been disproven by Star Valley alone. They competed quite well the 4 yrs they were there. Douglas and Powell would seriously disrupt the 4A state tourney THIS YEAR if they could compete in 4A.

2. 2A schools are afraid of getting bowled over and they won't be able to compete with larger schools OR that their wrestlers aren't able to earn many medals with the addition of some larger schools. Not true, check Ron Thon results for the past 5 years there have been plenty of 2A wrestlers WINNING titles and many more placing. So that doesn't wash.

3. Too much emphasis on participation. Yes, I want more wrestlers in our state. I don't want just more bodies, I want wrestlers that want to compete at a high level. I understand that not every young wrestler is college caliber or will be an Olympic champion. However, do we diminish our competitive field by going to 4+ classes just so we have a higher percentage of wrestlers get on the podium? It is very important that our educators and coaches encourage competition in the classroom and in extracurricular activities. Not reduce the field just to let someone feel good...

4. Not enough of the public voicing their opinions about what 3-4 classes will do to our sport.


Lastly, Eddie, college coaches may keep an eye on the Ron Thon results and results from other big tourneys, but they like to see state champions who waded through a strong field of competitors. A state champ from the least populated state with 4 classes doesn't fit the bill. I am very proud of our 2A boys that are getting time in D1 and D2, (Kasey Garnhart, Leland Pfeiffer, Kaleb Hoyt and others). We would make their recruiting jobs easier if we go to 2 classes so they can see just how good their potential recuit is.


More to follow....


JOe

Joe,

The reclassification issue has little to do with wrestling and a whole lot more with the markee sports of football and basketball. Having sat through some of those meetings, I can tell you it isn't the 4A schools fighting to keep the top 12 "elite". There are far more smaller schools fighting to drop down in hopes of being "more competitive". It's all about the political pressure of winning state titles for the hometown folks. Point in case: South High, (with no seniors and not being able to stay within 50 points of a 3A opponent) got pushed up to 4A even though the recommendation was to keep them down to 3A until they had seniors - this would have kept 3A and 4A more competitive. Why did the vote go against the recommendation? Because AD's and Administrators viewed it as a chance to "compete" for a state title in the class below when perhaps they couldn't win it in the class they were currently in. Some voted to do what was best for their own school or program, not what was best for the majority of the kids or programs in the state. Wrestling most likely never entered into the conversation, instead the victim as the innocent by-stander...

To make an impact, parents and coaches have to voice thier opinions to their AD, Principal and Superintendant and hopefully the vote will go for what is best for the athletic programs of the entire state, not just the local community. Wrestling should not be coupled in with the other team sports, it is unique in and of itself and should be treated as such. A 2 class or all-class system would benefit wrestling; in order for that type of change to occur a core group will have to have the courage to take it forward and push the "voting membership" to vote for what's best for the state, not their own trophy case.

[Happy Gilmore]

If we go to two classes Torrington is in the small class. I just wanted to point that out.

I have heard this two class idea before and like it a lot. You have the top three team placers in the small class move to the big class the next year, and the bottom three big class finishers move to the small class the next year. This will allow you to build your programs.

Another idea is this:

No regionals
The week of regionals have a three class dual tournament championship (2A, 3A, 4A). This will decide your team championships. This way small schools can bring home hardware.

The week of state:
Individual State: No team scores: No classes: Unlimited entries. Huge brackets: At least three days. You would have a true state champion at each weight class.

[Syloss]

If we go to two classes Torrington is in the small class. I just wanted to point that out.

I have heard this two class idea before and like it a lot. You have the top three team placers in the small class move to the big class the next year, and the bottom three big class finishers move to the small class the next year. This will allow you to build your programs.

Another idea is this:

No regionals
The week of regionals have a three class dual tournament championship (2A, 3A, 4A). This will decide your team championships. This way small schools can bring home hardware.

The week of state:
Individual State: No team scores: No classes: Unlimited entries. Huge brackets: At least three days. You would have a true state champion at each weight class.

This is the best darn idea I've heard yet.

[JoeHatley]

If we go to two classes Torrington is in the small class. I just wanted to point that out.

I have heard this two class idea before and like it a lot. You have the top three team placers in the small class move to the big class the next year, and the bottom three big class finishers move to the small class the next year. This will allow you to build your programs.

Another idea is this:

No regionals
The week of regionals have a three class dual tournament championship (2A, 3A, 4A). This will decide your team championships. This way small schools can bring home hardware.

The week of state:
Individual State: No team scores: No classes: Unlimited entries. Huge brackets: At least three days. You would have a true state champion at each weight class.

HappyGilmore,


IF you and Syloss really think I want Torrington in the small class then you don't get it AT ALL. But the small class may be as good or better if we ever get to 2 classes. Put Torrington wherever I don't care. I really don't. But I like an all class individual state tournament. Team scores should count. I like big brackets as well. Those are good ideas.


Joe

[Syloss]

IF you and Syloss really think I want Torrington in the small class then you don't get it AT ALL. But the small class may be as good or better if we ever get to 2 classes. Put Torrington wherever I don't care. I really don't. But I like an all class individual state tournament. Team scores should count. I like big brackets as well. Those are good ideas.


Joe

Hold up Joe,

I like to give you a hard time every once in a while but, usualy it's just to get you to articulate your ideas better. I didn't mean to disparage this idea with a slight on you.